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Video Description

 Brains, Beauty, and Brave Hearts: A Tale of Love and Soap with Sabrina Ortolano

Join us in the Cozy Caregiver Cafe with Allison as she hosts Sabrina, a passionate entrepreneur and dedicated caregiver. In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, Sabrina shares her extraordinary journey of building a successful soap business while caring for her wife after a brain cancer diagnosis. Discover the emotional trials, healthcare challenges, and valuable lessons Sabrina faced, along with her tips on creating a resilient business and fostering community support. Hear about the real-life experiences that shaped her path, the importance of having a supportive network, and the balance between personal caregiving and professional life. This episode is packed with valuable insights, practical advice, humor, and heartwarming moments, making it perfect for anyone navigating the dual roles of caregiver and entrepreneur.

To learn more about Sabrina and the IPSB - School of Integrative Psycho-Structural  Bodywork please visit:

• www.IPSB.com

• Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/ipsbmassageschool/

Love,

Allison

Guide

00:0 Welcome to Cozy Caregiver Cafe

00:52 Sabrina's Caregiving Journey Begins

04:57 The Impact of Caregiving on Career

07:24 Balancing Caregiving and Personal Life

10:04 Lessons Learned and Moving Forward

15:01 Building a Supportive Work Environment

24:38 The Importance of Self-Care for Caregivers

36:02 Receiving Care as a Caregiver

37:32 Navigating Healthcare Biases

40:09 Support Systems and Resources

43:41 Challenges and Personal Stories

46:37 Building a Support Network

Thank You For Listening!

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Video Transcript

 Hello everyone, it is Allison with the Cozy Caregiver Cafe. Welcome back. Today, Cozy Caregiver Cafe family, we have a true expert who not only has personal experience with caregiving, but also, and I'm not going to spoil it, has some professional gems in terms of how she's used her experience to continue to serve so many others.

So welcome Sabrina to the Cozy Caregiver Cafe. Well, thank you so much, Alison. I'm so happy to be here today. Thank you for having me. Of course. Okay. So Sabrina, I would just love for people at the Cozy Caregiver Cafe to get to know you a little bit. So would you mind just sharing a little bit about yourself?

Not only what you do, but what caregiving roles or hats you've worn before? Of course. So I, my wife had brain cancer in 2014, and she has, she is, she is a unique and delicate flower who developed her own special kind of brain cancer that is means that she has been being monitored for the last 10 years so it's kind of a continuous process.

Um, I, when we found out she had cancer, we had, um, I had been developing a cosmetics company. So I had started a, a soap and body work, a body care company in my garage that turned into a multi million dollar company that, that was, That was in every Whole Foods and every Holy guacamole. And exported to five, to five other countries.

And it was a massive project. And it's funny because as I think back about that, it's like, you know, like, like when you've got a big project that like eats up your life, right? And I always think back. I'm like, I wonder if I would have noticed how Badly she was doing if I had been around more because I was working seven days a week and like 15 hour days and like during Christmas season, I didn't come home for like three months because I just slept in my office because we, we worked 24 hour shifts because we were growing so rapidly and it was an amazing experience.

But I turned around one day and realized like it was what we thought had been an ear infection, like maybe a cold was, was not going away. And so I finally like, you know, I've been a massage therapist for. Since early 2000s. So, you know, I'm a, I'm a hippie. We do all the things. We went to the acupuncturist.

We did all the stuff. And we're like, nothing's helping. Like all of our stuff we normally do, it isn't helping. So I took her to a GP and he was like, well, okay, so you've done all these things. Great. This is normally what I would say, do let's, let's just rule out any neurologic things. And we went and we went and got a, an MRI.

And the, the MRI tech came out of the room and handed me the disc and said, you need to call your doctor immediately. And within two weeks, we were, we were having, scheduling brain surgery. Because the, the, what we thought was an ear infection was a tumor that had grown and compressed her, her inner ear nerve.

And she went from, Being able to function and okay to a grew to the point where she was slurring her words and not able to walk by the second week. And, you know, I'm I'm I know we all have varying experiences with the US health care system. It's it's a whole thing. But I had to fundraise 160, 000 to pay for a specialist that had actually done the procedure before, because we had catastrophic health insurance because we were, you know, we're, we're wellness practitioners and it, you know, it's really informed my understanding of, of how I move through the world, this whole experience, because our, you know, prior to this, I had the privilege of us being generally healthy all the time.

And all of our wellness practices maintained our health. Well, we had no idea we had this kind of sleeping nightmare growing in her, in her skull. And we have no idea when it started or how long it took to get to the point that it did. We just know that it hit a crisis point in early 2014. And we spent, we spent almost a solid year living in and out of, um, UCLA Ronald Reagan Hospital.

And because my wife is a delicate flower, she's, I always call her my pansy, because she bruises so easily. She is just so delicate. Um, she responded very poorly to treatment. And, you know, she, there was a point in late 2014 that I just, we signed an AMA and I took her home because I was thinking she was going to die.

And we survived it. She survived it, but it was, you know, it was four or five years of, I was a full time caregiver. And she always, she always jokes now that she's my, that she's my favorite science experiment because I'm like, I was, I was a full time caregiver. So I'm like, we're going to, we're going to try this and we're going to do this and we're going to.

Do this exercise. It was like my full time job, you know, and we, we managed to accomplish some miraculous things with her recovery that the doctors really didn't think she was going to survive, but it took a full time commitment for me. And, you know, that, that was one of the things I was thinking about when we were talking earlier about, you know, having a, having a business and having a life and having dreams and having something beyond just being a caregiver.

It's so challenging to balance because. really, when you have this life changing, profound thing, it is really hard to move out of the anxiety of, I need to constantly monitor and over overview and like trusting, like, like the first time she drove after having to relearn to walk was, was the most terrifying day.

Like, she's like, no, I think I'm going to go to the store. And I'm like, you're going to go to the store. What? Like without me? It's just so crazy. And it's like this whole process of like, Becoming, you know, supporting her in finding independence again, and independence that's different than it was prior. Oh my gosh.

Because her capacity has changed. Well. It's just such an interesting experience. What an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that. And so I just want to check, Sabrina, so right now your wife is still being monitored but relatively healthy? Is that correct? Yeah, they won't say she's in remission because they couldn't remove all of the tumors.

Okay. So she's continuously monitored. She has developed some secondary tumors in lower and lower in her spine. They were benign, but they're, they're thinking it's part of, um, part of that is a result of the radiation exposure from the treatments. Okay. So, so she's had, she's going to have some challenges.

Just always. Well, and so it's kind of an ongoing project. Absolutely. I mean, I, well, first of all, I'm so glad to hear that, that even though, and we know that more and more people are living with cancer today, I'm, I'm so glad that. Yeah. It really feels like you were able to step in and be precisely what she needed in terms of, I mean, I can already tell by your energy and fire, a fierce advocate, most likely, not only compassionate caregiver, but I'm also imagining that You just in the short time I've known you knew how to balance really when to appreciate the delicate flower in her, but also maybe help push her a little bit towards certain things.

Um, and so one of the things Sabrina, just because it, it is so in the strike zone of the cozy caregiver cafe that I want to talk about is, so you, you talked about building this very successful business at the same time that, um, your wife was really growing sick. And so, At what point did you realize, because it feels like in becoming a full time caregiver, I'm assuming that you stopped.

Oh, I walked away from my company. So, at what, I mean, one, that's I mean, of course, because it's your wife, but it's heartbreaking, right? As an entrepreneur. And I'm hoping that you can explain if it's not too painful, that moment where like, you've been building this baby and you've been nurturing this marriage.

And then all of a sudden you realize the two cannot coexist and what, like what, when you knew that, and then what happened next? I was sitting in the neural ICU unit. With my wife, who, who, she had, you know, drain lines coming out of her head, they just removed a huge, her entire left, left cerebellum, which is like the rear part of your brain, had been removed because it was a tumor.

They couldn't get all of the cancer. We're having all of these conversations about like, she may not walk again, all of these things that are just like crazy, like life, life altering conversations. And, um, and I'm like, I don't know if she's going to survive this. And I had a business partner at the time who just, he, he just had no concept of like, he's an incredible salesperson.

He's brilliant at visions and ideas, but as a human being, he has some challenges and he could not understand why I would not come into work. And I just hit this point where I'm like, our realities are not meshing. And I cannot, I cannot, I will never forgive myself if I leave and something happens. And it took me a solid year to divorce the company.

Uh, I had to work with a lawyer in between being a caregiver. I did a gang load of fundraising so that we could survive. We had some incredibly generous people in our lives. Like the only reason we weren't homeless is because we have some incredibly generous people in our lives that helped us make it through the, the time that we were navigating this.

Oh my goodness. Oh, you know, it was just a, it was, it was, it was the, the loss of my business. It was so like doubly hard to navigate on the whole process because I, I, I mean, I've been living in the office and working. I had, I had a crew of 30 people that I was, I was managing. That was like a huge thing.

And so the, you know, the navigating the grief, I realized that the, the grief of losing the business was not greater than the grief I would experience if I was not there and something happened. Wow. I just want to let that sink in. Think in, especially for me, because what a hard, what a difficult calculus to even consider.

But one of the things that I, I didn't know was going to come up Sabrina, but I really appreciate about your story is that despite being in this incredibly, um, trying time, you, it feels like recognized you still had agency. It's like, these are crappy decisions. It stinks up one Hill and down the other, but.

I'm still going to make a decision. I mean, and I say this because over 50 percent of caregivers feel that they didn't have a choice in caregiving. And that statistic breaks my heart because it just, I feel like it just sets those people and there's no guilt, there's no shame, but anybody who feels like they didn't have a choice in caregiving, it sets that person up in a sense to fail because it it brings in this forced mentality.

And even though Even though someone could look at your story and not really parse the nuances and say, Oh, well, she was forced to divorce her company. Like what I'm hearing you saying, but tell me if I'm wrong. What I'm hearing you saying is I ultimately decided. Well, you know, Alison, I think it's, I think it's an interesting thing that I, I grew up in a, and I have a, I have a massive family.

We, no, we don't get along at this point. I don't talk to a lot of my family, but my early childhood was really, um, I feel like it was a little unique because of, because of how big it was. We had, we had a multi generational family and, and so I spent a lot like my, or very early, like some of my earliest memories are with people who were in the end stages of life.

And so my, my. Perspective on life has a lot to do with the process of death. And my understanding that ultimately what I've seen consistently with everyone that I've been near while they were passing is, you know, and I feel, I feel honored to be able to be able to support someone as they, as they transition that way.

That is that I think that's a, that's an ultimate honor in my perspective. Um, but the thing that I hear consistently and that I've heard consistently is the only real regret they have is not showing up for the people that they and having not said the things that, that, that mattered. And I know, ultimately.

What, where, where my regrets will lie with that. And I feel very lucky for that. You know, it's like I've, I've had, I've had friends who are, you know, have told me that they think it's, it's crazy that like I was helping care for my grandparents when they, when they were passing. But I understand like, you know, life, life ends.

And, and the choices that we make, the things that we regret are, you know, did I actually tell everyone I love them? You know, did I, did I, did I make it clear to the people that I care about that I care about them? You know, did I clear the air where I needed to? I, it means that like, I, I tend to be a little over effusive with my feelings, but, but I, but I also, I'm like really clear, like, I'm like, no, I, I may not have tomorrow.

I'm going to tell you now. Yes. And it means that I, I understand that like the choices, the choices that feel really big in the moment can be really, they, they feel like, okay, well, this isn't a good choice. Like, no, everything, it's terrible. They're all terrible decisions. Like what's the, what's the, what's the least harmful one?

Like I, I studied, um, I don't think I told you this. I studied to be a drug and alcohol counselor when I was in my early 20s. And I worked, I worked in the prison system for a while. And that was, that was heartbreaking. But the, the understanding of like the idea of harm reduction, like, okay, have you've got a whole lot of really bad decisions?

What's the least bad decision we can make. Right. And understand that you're still making decisions. Like it may not feel like it because you have a limited number of them, but you still do have a choice in what you're doing. And, and Being empowered to make those choices means that accepting the repercussions is easier.

Oh, absolutely. I, I, well, one, thank you so much for sharing that. And I, I have a very strong faith. I'm never try to push it on anybody, but when you say that you've had the experiences that you've had in your life, I'm like, Oh, wow, God molded her perfectly to be able to be there for her wife in this moment, in this point in her life.

So, wow. Um, one, one of the things that I just, I want to make sure doesn't slip by because. There's so much that I want to dive into but when it comes to the business and what you call the divorcing of the business, is there anything or one or two things that come to mind that you, you want other business owners to know that you wish you could have had in place or you could have done or thought about that would have made the process easier?

And maybe the answer is there's nothing, but I'm just, I always, I works a lot with, um, solopreneurs. We think a lot about content or small businesses. We think a lot about contingencies and continuity plans and what that might look like. There's of course only so much you can plan for, but I'm just, I'm curious if anything floats to mind.

Well, you know, uh, the lesson that I got out of that because it was very hard was something that I've taken into the current, the business that I'm currently running because I, I work best if I work for myself. I know that about myself. It's my personality. Um, and you know, Nakyla who's with us here today is, is one of the, a great example of that is I, I specifically hire with the intention of, of hiring people that I don't need to babysit and monitor.

I specifically work at not micromanaging because like I have been sick for the last three weeks and, and my business, the previous business where like my business partner was very, very hands on and very micromanaged on every level. And the problem with that is, is if you're so essential to daily operations that your business can't run without you, is it tanks when something bad goes on.

The thing that I have so I'm so grateful for in having because I've had RSV for three weeks now. I haven't been able to leave my house. I've been able to go into work. I'm working part time from home. And my team is so brilliant at everything they do because I trust them all to do their job and do it well that I, I can get sick and I still function like the business still happens without And so Focusing on people who, who you know, like, and trusting your people to do their job, right?

Trusting that, like, you know, mistakes are proof you're trying. And not penalizing people for, for errors, but rather helping them be successful at what they're doing. And creating an environment where they feel like they can say, Hey, I'm struggling with getting this thing done. And like, we can reassess your job load rather than penalize you for not doing the thing.

Means that they're, that your business is, is more able to survive if you have challenges. And that's, that's been the hardest lesson I learned because my previous business struggled when I was in, I took, I took a few days off for her to have surgery and go to the hospital. And there was just piles of problems because I had made myself so necessary for everything to function that I handicapped the business by not being there.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. So one, these are. Incredible insights. And I just, um, that tactically, if it's okay, I'd love to just dig in a little bit. So, so whenever you're an entrepreneur, I, I just feel like there's a natural tendency, right? To, to, to really have your hands in everything, especially if you've built it and to micromanage.

And so I appreciate that you had this huge life experience that just made you say, Sabrina, not only is this not feasible for you in your life, it's not feasible for any of the brilliant businesses you're going to create. Yeah. But the thing Sabrina is that it's not like we can just snap our fingers and change.

And when I hear you talk about how your amazing team like Nikhila and all of the other people that you work with were able to hold up your business and truly do you proud when you were sick, that doesn't just happen either. There's training, there's structure. So I'm wondering if just briefly, and maybe it's not brief, if you could just share how you were able to shift your mindset.

Into actual either policies and procedures or training that that truly supported what you wanted for your business. Okay. And that is a really complex question, but again, I think that the first and foremost thing is really, it's, it's about like internal work as the, as the person who is doing the business, right?

Like you have a vision and a dream and it's your baby and you have this, you have to, you have to work on your capacity to communicate. You have to work on your ability to do things. You have to work on, on letting go of things and remember that done is better than perfect. And, and work on like building up your team.

And if you hire someone to do something, you're, you're doing the, you're, you're entrusting them with part of your baby and you have to let it go. Right. It's like the babysitter is not going to raise your child the way that you would raise your child, but your child will survive you going out to dinner.

Right? So, like, there's nothing wrong with the way the babysitter made macaroni and cheese tonight, right? Like, you're, it's, it's, they still ate. I'm laughing because I'm a two and a half year old and it's like you're reading my mind at times, right? So, I understand. So, like, I mean, the baby still ate. They, they are healthy.

They're not injured. It just doesn't look like the beautiful dinner you would have provided and the, like, bath time and story time and everything that you would do, right? It's a similar idea. Like. You have to not let things be so precious that that you handicap your ability to grow, because we really as entrepreneurs only have so much capacity.

And, and the reality is, is we can be the biggest thing that keeps us from growing. And so when we get in the way, and we make every little detail too precious to allow anyone else to put their spin on it. We, we, We hamper and hamstring the ability of our business to grow. The other thing that I think is really important too, and this is, this is true for caregiving and for everything else is it's really important to not be the most competent person in the room.

Like you need to have people that in your life that are, you need advisors. You need is as a business, just from an entrepreneur perspective, you need, you need people who know more than you, who have done bigger things than you to talk to, because you will never have all the answers to your problems. And then it is really easy to project the fact that the people who have come in to support your goals Are not meeting them because you are you're expecting them to have the answers when in reality You need to be looking for advisors that will advise you Oh my gosh.

Yes. Absolutely snaps and claps and all of that. Thank you for sharing that and um, is it so I don't know if this is too unorthodox, but Nikyla, because we have you here, would you be open? I mean, since you've been under, you know, working with Sabrina and, um, learning from her and she, uh, actually called you out as an example of someone, would you just want to say a few words about what it's like to be an employee at this type of business or ways that other entrepreneurs who are listening, who are afraid to release the reins a little bit can do so in a way?

You know, as successfully as Sabrina has been able to do. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for asking. Um, I could talk about Sabrina all day and how much I love working for her. I mean, I really feel so passionately about her as a leader and just working with her. Um, This is I've been working for Sabrina for about, oh, what, six or seven months, um, in a, in a couple of different capacities at first and then, and then full time, um, in marketing and PR and, uh, all of that realm for the last probably six months.

Um, what I can say to that is. Every day. I have never, I have not yet once in six months had a bad day. I've actually not had a stressful day, which is crazy. I went from being so tightly wound in other roles. Um, and feeling just stressed all the time. I have not had one anxiety ridden or stressful day because every single time there's an issue, and I make mistakes, uh, it, it is never, there is never a sense of punishment.

I'm going to lose my job. Nothing like that. I can. call Sabrina like I would a friend or a family member that I am really close to and I trust and we can just talk through things. And I think that's so special. I feel like my, the quality of my work is so much better in a place where I'm not run by fear.

I'm not worried about doing something wrong. I can just kind of blossom and grow. And it's, it's really been the best experience. I actually enjoy. My, my career, my day to day. And that's really, really special. And that's something that I haven't experienced, uh, in, in the past a ton. So I'm staying with my grandparents right now.

And I was just talking to them about that a couple, couple hours ago about just how grateful I am to be here because it's, it's really special. It just feels like I get to help my good friend. Uh, I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like I'm just working with my friends and I just, I, it makes me more passionate about the goals of the company and about Sabrina's goals.

And I want to see them to fruition. I want to, I really want the best for, for the school and. Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't speak more highly. No, that's, I mean, one that was gorgeous and so articulate. Thank you. And one of the things that, um, as entrepreneurs were thinking about is how can we truly, uh, give service, you know, serve, provide service in a way that creates raving fans, but I think that what you, what, what you as a duo have just done is also talked about how, how do you create raving employees?

So thank you. This has been amazing. So we're going to segue. I'm not sure if this segue is going to work, but we will try. Okay, so my, my segue is We've talked about now that you are on the other side. I mean, I know you're still going through it, but the other side of maybe this health crisis with your wife and how you've built a team and you are actively communicating and you're trusting a lot of people.

Um, so now I want to take us back though, because we know that one thing caregivers feel and struggle with is just the concept of having to do everything themselves, not wanting anybody else to be there in terms of the real stuff, like the hard stuff. Sure. You can come and visit, but if someone's going to be changing feeding tube, if someone's going to be giving this medication, that will be me.

And so I'm just, I'm wondering, Sabrina, if even now in the ways that you care for your wife, if there's, Um, a compare and a compare or a contrast there in terms of personal life and, and professional life and this amazing mindset shift you've had and how you've really been able to make that a reality in your business.

You know, it just, just to kind of go back to some of the harder lessons we learned when we first started that way, my wife and I always joke about, um, what we call unhelpful help. I understand exactly what you're saying. Right. So like, like, for example, my brother in law, I love him to death. And he was so overwhelmed about my, my wife getting sick.

He came out from Massachusetts. He's a nurse and he's like, how can I help you? Cause we've been living in the hospital for a couple of weeks. So I'm like, you take off. If you take all my dirty clothes home, that would be really great. Just take them home and put them in the dirty laundry pile. That's fine.

He, he was trying to be really helpful. He cleaned my house. He doesn't know where anything goes. So like I was putting tea balls in the bathroom and like, instead of putting my dirty clothes in the laundry, he, he tied the bag up and he put it in the back of my closet. I lost all my underwear for three months.

There's no wonder where I had to go buy new underwear. Cause I couldn't find it. And you didn't have time to look and didn't know to look. Right, right, right. So, so, you know, it's this thing of like, I think. I think as a caregiver, it's important to say, okay, though, this is, this is what's going to give me relief and this is what I feel safe letting go of.

Some of the real stuff. Yeah. No one, not everyone wants to like hold a bedpan or measure, measure your bowel movements. Like, like I said, like there was some really gnarly stuff that happened when she was sick. You know, and, and for my wife, who's, who's always been a very private, like bodily function kind of person.

Most of us are, I understand that. Right, totally. I'm not, but that's because I grew up with caregiving my whole life, right? So this whole thing. So, you know, I'm like, yeah, it's fine. It's not a big deal. I'm also a doula, so I'm like around people doing a lot of really insane bodily functions. I'm like, nothing fazes me.

But, um, Like her adapting to being comfortable with other people being present for things that would like, and in the process of accepting, I can't do basic things like go to the bathroom without assistance, is such a like dehumanizing thing that like, I totally understand people's desire to protect their partner.

And, and allow them their, like, as much autonomy and humanity as they can have. That being said, like, the best thing that anyone ever did for me was we had a friend who, um, she's, she was an administrator at the hospital and she's just, she's like, no, you need, you need a respite caregiver. And so she, she hired someone herself out of pocket to, to bring a, send it, she sent in a caregiver for five hours a week.

And she made me promise that in that five hours a week, if I know she's like, I know you're going to do things like grocery shop, I get that that's part of what you're doing, but I want you to take at least two of those five hours and go do something where you shut your phone off and you're alone. Go get some coffee, go to the Korean spa, do something that is about resourcing yourself.

Take a book and just stare at the book if you don't feel like you can read it, but that was so vital to me surviving and not resenting my partner, because it meant that it was it was actual help, rather than unhelpful help it was, I can trust the qualified person that is here to be with her. And she's safe for the five hours that I have to myself, so I can go unravel for two of those hours and like try to scoop myself back together when I go and do the errands I have to do.

Um, the other thing that, that I got recommended that I, because I'm, I'm a huge reader and I really like to learn. And I found like, and this is, I know this is really common. I've talked to a bunch of other caregivers. It's like, it's really hard to focus when you're under that much stress. So I lost the ability to read a paper, a physical book.

Like I just couldn't focus enough to absorb the plotline and what was going on. And I will tell you, like, this is one of my favorite tips for people. Libby is free with the library and audio books are just beautiful. Because you can let it play in the background. You can check in with, get yourself the fluffiest, most ridiculous story that isn't a, is a mental escape so that you have something outside of yourself that is entertaining and doesn't require you to look at it.

Because you can do things like dishes and in different things and still be aware of what's going on around you. It made a huge difference in my quality of life. These were the two things that really helped with it. And then long term it's, you know, it's, it's been really challenging to manage. Like she's, she's a delicate flower.

So she reacts weirdly to things. She has all sorts of like medication sensitivities and things that are like not normal. Like she had a surgery a year and a half ago. No. two years ago to remove a nerve tumor that had shown up. And if you ever meet my wife, she's, she's six feet tall. Okay. She's loud. She's, she's full blooded Italian.

She seems really big and robust, but she's the most delicate little flower that injures so easily. Like It's ridiculous because it's so in contrast to how she seems when you meet her. And so the doctors just assume because she's had all of these things go on and all of this stuff that she can tolerate larger amounts of medication than she can.

They overdosed her in the last surgery. They had to use Narcan to like resuscitate her. Oh gosh. It was terrifying. Right. And it's one of those things where it's like, I have, we have all of these experiences that kind of reiterate, like, I can't not be there. Like I have to be there. Right. And so it's hard to kind of let go of the reins on that.

And. I have worked really hard to cultivate like people I can, I, in, in our life that I can talk to about those things. And also to have people who I can say, Hey, I need, I need someone to help me with my dishes. I can't do, I can't get it this week. I'm just, I'm not able to keep up. And I have, I have friends, like, sometimes Nikyla is always very generous.

She's like, do you need your dishes done? That's so, that's one, that's amazing Nikyla. Um, and, and one of the things that that's coming up for me, Sabrina, and thank you so much for, for sharing all of that, is that one of the, the, the reason why I feel so passionate, not only about caregiving, but about, you know, business owners who have dreams and have been able to, to, to make something of those dreams is that I say, anytime you become a caregiver, you are essentially.

an entrepreneur, and maybe you have co founders or maybe it's just you, but you are the CEO. And so what I, what I hear you saying, and just tell me if, if I'm misunderstanding is that now with this, this new mindset shift that you have, and really hearing so elegantly about the way you're running your business, that you really are applying that.

Or maybe it's vice versa and you're applying principles from your life to your business now to your caregiving roles where you're saying there are things as CEO, as wife, I have to be there for the surgery and medications. One of them, the delicate flower elements of my wife, like I have to be there, but then there are things that I can ship out.

Things I don't have to do things that don't have to get done. And that's where I can call in my team. And that team may be, um, respite professional care, that team may be friends, that team may be employees who are like family, but you know, and that's how I'm going to really create this differentiating levels of is Sabrina required?

Yes. Okay. I'm there. Is Sabrina not required? No. All right, someone else can yeah, and also like letting go of the idea that I'm going to have a immaculate house and be able to like, like I'm, I turned 50 this year, and, and you know my, my capacity is lower than it was when I was 40. It's lower than I was when I was 30, right?

And so having like making a realistic assessment, like I, I just, we were going through this whole process of like, one of the reasons that we moved to where we're, where we're at is we had, we had the opportunity to access a big piece of land where I could set up an urban homestead and it's an incredible amount of work.

And I'm going through the process right now of disassembling all of it because realistically, the thing that's more important to me is the business that we're running and the classes we're teaching and things that we're doing. And I don't have the bandwidth. To also maintain the chickens in the garden and the da da da da da da da, right?

When I was a full time caregiver and I was home, it was an incredible comfort to go outside Have my little walkie talkie so she could call me if she needed anything, but I'm a few feet away. Right. Right. I have a thing where like I had a, I could channel my anxiety into growing tomatoes. Right. That was, that was very helpful.

But at this point in my life, we are no longer in the same, we have the have, we have different needs, and it, it's been, it's been a really interesting thing of like going through the grief processes of divesting the things that helped me cope. Then. And shifting into trusting that the things that are new are trustworthy and that I can have those things.

It's also, you know, it's as, you know, our capacities change as we age, but also, you know, when, when someone recovers, like her capacity is different than it was before she got sick and understanding that, like, I have to trust her to handle some things again. You know, the other, the other day she made, she made a bunch of doctor's appointments and got things sorted and handled it all herself.

And it was like, But I think it's my job, you know, I was like, I'm so grateful that like she's, she's well enough now to be able to take on some of the process and share the, share the load. Right. And she still has bad days and she still has days where she like can't do things, but like she's, you know, we're in a big push right now with our business.

I'm working a lot and trying to get, get things taken care of. And I've been sick and she's been taking care of me, which was a really weird juxtaposition of experience. Yes. You know, like, can I, can I really lay down and have a fever? Like, is that possible? Like what, what, what happens with that? And she's, you know, been doing all the things and she's, you know, she's wobbly and sometimes she, she falls if she's not careful, but she still, she, she managed to, to show up in a way that it's different than it would have looked before she got sick.

But because we have worked so hard at partnering through this process. It, it means that she, she, with the capacity she has can show up for me, which was, it's been an extraordinary thing to have our relationship changes, you know? Well, I mean, thank you for sharing that. And one of the things Sabrina that comes to mind, and I think I know the answer because you said, you said a little bit, but, um, have you been able to truly receive, receive this care in the time that you've been sick?

It's hard. It's hard. For me, I, I'm not good at being safe. I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no, go, go, go, go, go. And it's, and again, too, it's a part of it is the, is the, like, you just have to put your, like, this is a common caregiver thing. Like you just, you put your head down and you just push through. Right. Because that's what you have to do.

And, and even if you're choosing to be there, there's still like you're carrying a load and your, your needs end up being last a lot of the time. And the thing that thing that I've appreciated is as, as she's gotten more stable and like, like I'm, I'm she's healthier. There are things that are like, you know, we're, we're going to continuously be working with things.

There's always going to be something that we're, we're managing, but as she's gotten out of crisis and into maintenance, She is, you know, she's making the commitment to take care of herself in ways she's trying to take that back on again and shift the dynamic of what we've we've dealt with and it's been.

healing for me because it, it was, it's been very hard to navigate for the last 10 years. I can, I can only imagine. And I I'm, I'm really excited for us to talk about your business and that's going to be my Next question after this one, but I did just want to pause here. Um, I know we've talked about health insurance and health care systems And there are as we know some inherent biases in these systems and so I was wondering to the extent you feel comfortable if you found that Being caregiving and cancer treatment has raised any Situations which one maybe you did anticipate or you didn't anticipate in term and just wondering if there's a way we can serve other listeners who may not even be contemplating, you know, these issues but may be able to benefit.

Well, you know, it was it was it was an interesting it gave us an opportunity to have conversations with my brothers that I hadn't had prior. I was explaining to my brother like you know we, my wife and I got married in 2008. But we found ourselves like, I mean, yes, we should all be planning our, like our last will, all of our things.

Like there's a whole conversation that can be had about like putting your things into a trust and all of that stuff. That's, that's a whole other thing. Right. But like my brother was so shocked that I, I was carrying my marriage license and my power of attorney paperwork with me everywhere because he would never even be questioned.

He would never have to prove that he was the spouse of his partner. And I have to prove it. Every time we go into the doctor, every time we go into the hospital, every time we go into anything like that, I have to show them my right to be the person who, who advocates for my partner. And it, it adds a layer to things that is just so much more stressful than is necessary.

And it also means like we're, you know, we're lucky we live in Los Angeles. And, you know, we, we opted to go to UCLA for, for most, for all of her care. And they are very progressive around how they, they handle, you know, queer people and queer relationships. They're very supportive that way, which was great, but it's still, I still had to bring all of that in to get my name added to any of those things to prove she couldn't just say, this is my spouse.

I had to prove that this is, this is a thing. And, and it was, you know, it's, that it's, It's invalidating to some extent, and it means that things that are hard to start with are challenging, you know, like having people ask if I'm her sister, or anything along those lines, and it's like, you know, oh, you know, who's, who's the, who's the point person on this?

It's, it's, it's challenging, like they did, they did a good job at UCLA, they did a really good job of, of, you know, once they knew who I was. acknowledging the situation. But the fact that like, I have to even consider going into that is challenging. Um, it's also one of the reasons like we opted our, our primary care, all of our primary care, even though it would be easier with our insurance to stick in the, in the UCLA system, we opt to go to the gay and lesbian center at, in Hollywood because they're one, we never have to explain our relationship.

We never have to explain the choices we make with birth control and things or, or not using it. Um, And I have found that being at the Gay and Lesbian Center, it's some of the most progressive and innovative healthcare I've ever received. Meaning like they start with like quality of life and food before medication, which has been a unique experience, you know, a lot of the conversation that I've had with our GP there has been like, okay, so we know like one of the things we're finding is depression can be helped with making sure you have adequate amount amounts of omega fatty acids in your body.

Like, yeah, your wife has cancer and and that obviously is going to depress you. But are you also eating things that are going to look, can we add a supplement? That's going to help your, you be more resilient in this situation, which was an extraordinary approach to mental health care for me and in there, you know, they're, they're, they're very innovative in the way that they do that.

And I think that that's, you know, and they also, they also, it's like, it's like that care at the center is not limited to just where people like anyone can go there. And because the focus on that is quality of life. And like. wellness care, not just reactive care. It's been a really extraordinary experience for us.

Oh my gosh. Well, that is so incredible to hear. And I always, um, I'm, I'm always trying to think about what people might be thinking. And so one of the things I do just want to check when you say your GP is talking about, um, quality of life and nutrition. Is, does your GP have an MD? Is your GP? Yes, my GP is an MD and he worked, he works in concert with my psychiatrist and my, my, so they put me into crisis counseling when, when she got sick.

They're like, you're going to need a little more support. Yeah. Um, the other thing that I think like, and I know, I think there's a, there's a branch of this place in New York. There's definitely two in California, but the, um, cancer support center, I feel like, you know, if you're, if you're dealing with cancer, the cancer support center, everything is free.

They do, they do support groups and group counseling for both people who are going through cancer and who are the caregivers and they have the, um, support groups synced up so that the. The sick person and the caregiver can go at the same time so that you don't have to worry about getting them to the group at a different time and you're not leaving anyone.

And they do, they do all sorts of incredible, that was an incredible resource that they have, that the, the counselor at the center helped me find. That's right. Now, I mean, it definitely feels like Sabrina you've had, I mean, and it's your personality and in the way that you've given and served and love, but so many people it feels like have held your hand on this journey and, and walked you through it.

And so, um, for, for you. caregivers who are feeling alone, or caregivers who are saying, Oh, well, Sabrina's story is so great, but she had all these people in her life. And I just, I feel like I don't have anybody. Is there something that you could say in terms of encouraging to, to reach out to resources or to, to reach out to just one person?

I'm not sure if you've ever felt that way. It feels like you were fully supported. When we, when we, when we were in the, in the thick of it, it was really hard. Like I did a lot of stress baking and being alone was, it was. challenging, but the, the, the thing that like, I, I, I don't know if we've talked about this a lot, but like, I, I made a decision when Cindy was very sick to intentionally invest in the relationships of, of the people who showed up for me.

Yeah. Gosh, that's beautiful. I just want to like, that's beautiful. What you just said. And the reason for it is, Unless you're going through something like what we go through, you don't understand it. And it can be terrifying to not know how to be with someone who's going through all of these things. And so the thing, the thing that I made, I made a decision to do is like, okay, so I get that I grew up with people around me aging and dying.

And so I understand that process and it doesn't scare me, but it is terrifying for most people. And many of us like American culture is focused on avoiding the idea of aging and dying to like, we're just going to focus on everything but like youth and living is all we want to focus on. And there's such beauty and wisdom and grace to be understood in the process of aging and dying.

That is so, so necessary for us to have full lives. And, and so part of what I, I, I made it like, I, I had a lot of, a lot of journaling time while my wife was lying in bed, doing nothing. I'm watching her breathe going, babe, you need to take a deeper breath. The alarm's going to go off again. So you have the constant, constant, like making sure she's breathing.

It's like a lot of time to sit and think right. And I made, I made an intentional decision to work on investing in and investing the energy, even though I had so little energy in the people who were comfortable or even in their discomfort still showed up and, and really trying to communicate and be clear what my needs were.

And some of that is like, you know, it was clumsy. It was very, very clumsy for a very long time. This is not a graceful process. It is a challenging process and it is a very messy and real and hard process. I had like, you know, Sydney, Sydney got a, she got a UTI at one point and I mean, for those of you who are, have care, who are caregivers, you understand like UTIs are terrifying because they're, they don't always have symptoms to start with, right?

When you have chronic illness, like the symptoms can be, the person just starts hallucinating and talking nonsense and it is terrifying. And so I, you know, I, there are, I, there are many instances where like, I'm like, I've had to rush her to the ER and we spend all night in the ER and we have all of these crazy things that happen.

And I had to admit, I'm scared to be alone. After the first, the first instance with the UTI. I had to tell my friends, I am scared to be alone at night. I need people to come and stay with me. And our friend who is a nurse, she's like, I will take Thursdays. I will be there on Thursdays. And so she, you know, she was there the night that we brought her home from the hospital.

And, you know, we had, we had, you know, as, as, as do many people in like navigating cancer, we have a lot of wellness stuff. And so we had, we had, we had been working on, um, You know, her taking CBD supplements to help mitigate some of the stuff, all these things that help with the pain management, all these things, it's a whole thing, right?

But you, you, you work your way up on those. Well, when she got home, she'd been off of all of these supplements that we've been giving her for, um, you know, I think two weeks we were in the hospital for two weeks of that, that round. And so, you know, we came home and we gave her like her hat. I had all of her regular, you know, pills laid out.

She was taking something like 40 different types of medication. So I wasn't thinking, I just had new, like her evening dose was in the thing. Well, I, the CBD was in there and I remember sitting there and I was so grateful that my friend who was a nurse was there because I, you know, I, we have, we have the hospital bed that my wife is in.

I'm on, on my wife's side of the bed. My, my nurse friend was on the other side of the bed. And I look over and Cindy's just like, I had given all of her medications, not thinking she's not been taking any of the CBD. She's not, she can't tolerate it. She's a delicate flower, right? So she took the CBD and she was so high and I was not prepared for her reaction to it because she was not tolerating all of these things.

And I was terrified that I had just overdosed her on something or something had happened. And she, it's, it's funny now, It's, it's funny now, like years later, it's funny. She, she rolls over and looks at me and she's like, I saw you. And I'm like, what is happening?

Waking my friend up. I'm like, she sits down and she does the whole cognitive thing. And she does all the tests and she's like. She starts laughing, she says, You gave her the CBD tablets, didn't you? She's like, she's just too high. She's never been high before. She's just, she's like, she's fine, it's fine. But like, having the person to be like, I'm terrified, I just did something awful, I don't know what's going on.

Am I gonna kill her? It was really funny now, but it was really, really terrifying in the moment. And like, being able to ask for help and saying, I'm scared to be alone. I need people to sit with me. I mean, because, I mean, just think about it as like, the thing I didn't think about until all this happened, we don't have landlines anymore.

So, emergency vehicles don't always know where you are when you call. So calling 9 1 1 like she collapsed in the bathroom a couple of times and calling 9 1 1 and then I live in this massive artist colony that is just, it's like this industrial space. It's impossible to find our space. Trying to get a pizza delivered is like a nightmare and, and so I had to call a neighbor to go out and while I'm on 9 1 1 on the other line, I had to call a neighbor to come over and then direct the direct the ambulance to us because they couldn't find us.

I'm like dealing with her on the floor having collapsed and trying to navigate that and like the, the reality that like, okay, so I'm not, I have to admit I'm not able to keep up with all of this alone. And I have to ask for people to come stay with me. So I just put the call out to the people that I felt safe being in our space and said, if you have a night a week that you can come and spend the night with me, I will be able to sleep if someone else is there so I know that if we need to direct the ambulance to us.

We, we, I will have someone to send. And we had a whole group of people who, because I gave them a, here's a specific need that I have. They showed up for us. It was amazing. Oh my gosh. But it's, but short of it was me, me being like admitting like I, I need help and this is specifically what I need. And I think some of the things that are hard about that is identifying what your needs are.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. And, and like, I had to, there's so much shame around like, Oh, I can't handle all the things. Like, you know, I'm, I am super ADHD. And so I have a lot of, a lot of energy and I'm very neurotic when it comes to my wife's care. And so I, I'm channel because I had to sit and like monitor her breathing for periods of time, like, because she was having she had depressed respiratory function from the radiation.

And so like I couldn't go very far from her like I had to be within like, I had to make sure she's still breathing, which is a terrifying. thing. Like sleeping is not happening at that point. Right. And, um, but it meant that like, I was having ADHD, ADHD, executive dysfunction issues with like, I'd start doing the dishes and then I'd forget that I was doing the dishes and I'd go do this other thing.

And it's like, it was so helpful for my friends who started to come stay to be like, okay, so it seems like you need some help doing the dishes. So I'm just going to do some dishes while I'm here. Cause I'm here. I brought dinner and we're just going to hang out. And, and yeah. And, and also to be like, okay, so, you know, radiation and chemotherapy and all of those things, they, they changed your taste buds, Sydney's ability to eat things.

Like she was down, her diet was like done like three things that she could stomach. Right. And to, to finally be like, look, getting something in her body is more important than getting the healthy, perfect things in her body. She needs to eat right. There needs to be food in her body so that she can rebuild things.

So I'm not going to judge what she wants. If she wants a Subway veggie sandwich, and that's the only thing she wants to eat all week for three meals a day, if she gets three meals a day, I'm stoked. Right? Like, I'm not going to judge what it is she's eating, because at this point she can't handle the taste of or stomach things other than this thing.

You know, I found every 24 hour subway in Los Angeles, like the Postmates is my friend. Yeah. Oh my gosh, Sabrina, you, you just have such a, a beautiful outlook on life and, and what, what I'm, what I'm feeling is I, I really want every single caregiver to just have you in their ear because you, Provide a realness and an authenticity about caregiving, but you also bring levity, which is so important in caregiving.

And so thank you for just, I mean, you are a unicorn mix of everything and I know we're, you're a unicorn. New friends, but I love you and I'm just so grateful for you. Um, and so before, before we sort of, I take too much of your time, I'd love to just know a little bit more about your business. I know that you, you had to say goodbye to.

This dream and you were an entrepreneur, you've cared for your wife full time. Now your wife is, is doing better and you're still monitoring and you built, it seems this other business with raving employees like Nick Island. So I would just, I'd love to know what, what you're up to now. Well, okay, so we had to reassess what we're doing with our lives, right?

So we, we got, we got through the crisis and we're like, all right, well, what works? And one of the things that we had to reconsider is like, what, what can my wife, what's her capacity, right? Her capacity is different than it was previously. There was no. No way she was going to go and get a different job. We have been teachers at the massage school for, so we, we, we've worked, I, I trained at the same school that Cindy trained at and we both, we both teach there.

And, um, the school IPSB in, in Los Angeles has been around since the seventies and, um, We, you know, we've both been teachers there for a long time, and I've always had to kind of like, my resume is an ode to ADHD, like I always have at least three different things going on at any given time, like many entrepreneurs.

So, I have, I have taught at the school and helped out in administration for a lot of years. And I started teaching a couple of years after I completed my certification there because I just love what we do. I think that touch is so important for mental health. And it's really like, I mean, I could talk for hours about how touch activates the, um, rest and reset process in the, in the nervous system and how healthy it is for people and dealing with depression.

That's a whole thing. And that's part of why I got into doing that. So I've had my own massage practice and eventually a doula practice and things that are, uh, Have been kind of a through line and everything that I was doing. Like I was making this, this like massive soap company, but I still was helping deliver babies and like do body work because it's, it's part of who I am.

And Cindy has been teaching at that school since 1995. And it, the IPSB is this really unique, extraordinary little magical community of people who are really committed to the understanding that like touch is, is vital to our mental health and our, our, our culture thriving. One of the, one of, we did the math this last, in the last year about, um, what makes the most sense.

And the reality is, is like, Cindy does best if she's doing things that she's been doing for a long time. Learning new skills because she has some brain injury are more challenging than, than evolving the things she's been doing for years. So, We have been emphasizing her teaching and doing the things that she loves because she's very good at them.

She's one of the best, the best trauma specific and injury specific body workers in the country. She's amazing. Trauma specific body work. That's okay. I'm, we'll put a pin on that. Scar tissue, injury recovery, sexual trauma. She is, she's extraordinarily talented and The, the ability to feel like she's doing something meaningful has really made a difference in her quality of life.

And so being able to teach and teach, teach the deep tissue work and the things that she's passionate about has been the easiest thing for her to do. So in 2020, the previous owners were, you know, they were like, Oh, we need, we need to pivot. We need someone else to be running the thing because we weren't wearing a pandemic and there's, we're not sure how we're going to make it.

So they called me and they said, you're really good at helping create community. And what we need right now is community to survive this pandemic. And so they put me in the position of being the director of the school. And we had had some sort of conflict before I came in, where I had to rehire a whole bunch of new staff.

And I was specifically hiring staff with the idea of Okay. So we need a team that can work together and thrive together. So I went through and my, my interview process was more about like, what kind of person are you and what, where do you, what do you enjoy doing? Because when you enjoy what you're doing, it's easier to do it.

Right. And I'm, I'm really big on like, like, like Nikayla loves what she's doing. I want her to do all the things she enjoys. I'll find someone who enjoys the things she doesn't enjoy to do rather than force her to do stuff she hates because she's just there. Right. And, and I'm, what I find is like, I mean, basic policies for me, I don't ask anyone to do anything that I'm not willing to do, like, that's an entrepreneur thing, but also like, if I find something distasteful, either we need to assess if it needs to be done, or if it, if it, we should be doing it, frankly, like, if it's something that is, that I, that I'm not willing to participate in, if I find it distasteful, I'm not going to slough it off on someone else, I need to assess if it's vital to do, because I, I don't want That's it.

to have a feeling of like negativity and like ick around anything that we're doing. So we need to reassess what we're doing. And if there's not someone who loves doing those things, like Ann, our counselor, she is amazing. She loves being the person that like holds all of our students hands while they go through and figure out what they're doing and like walk them through all that.

And I love her for that. And I'm like, I love like all of the process of that, but I can't also be the person that holds all of my students hands. Right. And she loves doing it. And so the things that she doesn't love doing, I'm like, okay, well, let's find somebody who could do that. So that's a whole thing.

Um, I feel like I'm getting sidetracked because I love all my people so much. No, this is great. Honestly, it's a mastermind in business. So thank you. So, so part of what we're, you know, what we did is we were assessing like the, as the pandemic went on, what the people who had currently owned the business found was that they really liked doing less.

They're, they're at a point they're, they're good. Like, Gary is, I want to say, a good 10 or 15 years older than me. And he's, he was like, you know, I, I'm reassessing what my goals are in my life, which is, which is Pandemic is a great time to do that. Like, let's reassess. We have major reassessment in life.

Like, what do, what do we want to do? What, what lights us up? What do we want to continue to focus on? And what he came to was, I want to do less. I don't know that I want to do what we originally talked about, which is when I took over, it's like, okay, we're going to have the intention of downsizing. And then when we get through the pandemic, we're going to open a clinic.

We're going to open a thing. We're going to expand. He's like, I don't think I have the energy and capacity for expansion again. It's like I am, I'm in a place in my life where I need to, I want to make the things that are important to me precious and wind down so that it's quality rather than quantity.

And I'm like, I can totally honor that. I totally like, so as, as the director of the school, I was assessing like, okay, well, what happens if we close the school? What does that look like? What, what would that process be? And where would we be at? And then what Sydney and I, my wife realized that We're not ready to wind down.

We're in our, I'm like, she's 51, I'm 50, I'm 50 this year. We're still in a place of wanting to expand and grow, and we're now at the place where we have a capacity to do that. And realistically, like, if the school closed, what, what work would she do? And the thing that lights her up is, is sharing the things she's passionate about and that she loves, and training people to do this thing that is so beautiful that we do.

out there because the world needs more healthy touch. And so, you know, we really assessed it and we had a very good friend who was like, look, you guys have been through the ringer. I'm going to loan you some money that you see you can buy this business. Because realistically, like we, we have, we have, I mean, you know, it's like catastrophic illness tanks, your finances.

Then we had a pandemic. Where they shut down all our credit cards. So now our credit is terrible. I'm like, how are we going to do this? How are we going to make this happen? And we had this, this beautiful angel of a friend who was like, You should be able to do this thing. You shouldn't be penalized just because you, your wife had cancer.

So she loaned us, she loaned us the money to be able to purchase the, the business from, from Gary and Tracy. And, and, you know, we did that in September and we're kind of at this point now where it's like, I always feel like there's like one, you know, I like these, it's, it's, you got to the universe testing me right now.

Do I really want this thing? Like like a lot of the time we, we got into, um, taking over the business in September and we were planning on staying where we're at for a transferred over and established and kind of moving. And then the city of Santa Monica is like, um, we decided we're going to, we're going to move up the date that we're going to tear the building you're in down.

So we were originally thinking it was going to be summer of 2025. We're actually going to do it in fall of 2024. So we're not going to issue you a, uh, you know, an agreement to be here. You need to move. So we're, we're frantically fundraising and like finding a new space. But the thing that has been really extraordinary for me is like this beautiful team that we've worked through the pandemic together, like has evolved into this, like, really like self sufficient group of extraordinary individuals that are helping us like.

brainstorm like, okay, well let's like help us figure out how we can fundraise. And like, we'll do a crowdfunding thing and we'll do this and we'll do that. And like, I'm going to talk to this person to see if they want to invest. And like, I don't feel like I'm trying to raise money alone, which is, which is very different from what, what we went through with my, my soap company.

It's, it's such a different experience because it was me and my business partner. And it was like, you know, like oftentimes you end up making really questionable decisions because you just need the money to be able to pay your bills. Right. And if you don't have credit which we are, we're in the process of repairing our credit because we don't have decent credit because of the pandemic and years of sickness and all of these things like we like many people lived on our credit cards and then in the pandemic, even though we had 20 something years of.

paying those credit cards every single month, but we needed to pay, we needed to buy groceries, right? So we were paying the interest during the pandemic because we couldn't work for, for two solid years. We weren't allowed to do the work that we do. They shut all of our credit cards off and just put them into collections.

So all of a sudden we went from having a really good credit to just terrible credits. And now I'm like, how do I get a loan? I can't get a loan. What do I, what am I going to do? It's like all of these, All of, you know, all of the people in this team that have like walked through the pandemic with us and had, we're like, no, we, we think this is the best choice.

You should own this business. You should do this. I want to help you succeed at this. They've all helped me. Like Nikyla is extraordinary. Like we have gone through all of these, you know, reaching out to people and, and of like, we're, we're working together, tag teaming, talking to like venture capitalists right now.

Like all of these, it's, it's amazing. It's really like, I'm so grateful for my experiences as a caregiver. And, and going through all the things we've gone through because it's helped me cede some of the control and ask for the help that we need. And when I'm overwhelmed, it's been, I've been, I'm just like, I feel like I can just be like, Hey guys, I'm overwhelmed and kind of freaking out.

I need, I need support. Like tell me that this is not crazy that I'm doing this. Cause you know, I mean like most, most entrepreneurs, like there are moments where you're like, am I nuts? Like what am I, I'm creating this imaginary thing out of nothing, like, and I'm going to try and convince people to give me a whole bunch of money to do this thing.

And like, and the money shows up. Right. Like I seriously, I sat down with one of my doula clients and she's like, just because I'm helping her. Like, again, I'm investing intentionally in my relationships. Right. I love this client. I like she during the, in the middle of the pandemic, she had her baby and her midwife showed up late.

I caught the baby. I delivered her baby. That's not my job as a doula, but I was the only person there. So like, I, you know, me, her, her husband, we delivered that baby together. It was amazing. And we were close because, because of that experience, we're really bonded. So her and her husband just got married.

They've been together for a lot of years. They were having, I was helping her make bath bombs for her wedding as gifts and stuff. So we're hanging out and I'm like, I allocated some time to spend with her because I wanted to hear her. What's going on with her life and see her baby. And so like, so she delivered her baby in the like 2021 and, you know, she chose a home birth because it was in the middle of a pandemic and she didn't want to deliver alone.

So we did a home birth. The midwife was late. I didn't believe she was actually as far along as she was. So I caught that baby. We have, we have a bonded relationship that's really different. And I was telling her, she's like, well, tell me about what's going on with you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, we're like, we're tight, you know, we're, we're trying to raise money for all these things.

She's like, Oh, I have, I have an investment. I'd rather give it to you than, than just put it in another CD. Okay. So like, she's our, she's our first investor coming in with like a big chunk of money. Oh my gosh, but it's because I, because of the, she trusts me because we've actively and intentionally worked on our relationship together.

Right. And this is, I mean, that's just such a perfect story. I feel like as a culmination of everything, because it was your, when I think of bath bombs, I think of your earlier business and then caregiving and, oh my gosh. Okay. Well, where can people find out more about you? Because Sabrina, it is clear just from the energy you bring from.

Your passion from your vision. I mean, I'm sure everybody listening has fallen in love with you on this call. I know that I have. So where, where can people learn more about you? And about your, about your school. The best place to hear about us or to get in touch with us is, is at IPSB. com. So it's IP as in Paul, S as in Sam, B as in boy.

com. And everything is there. We have all of our social media links on there. If you want to follow us, you can search for us there. All of our, you can contact us and see our team. And we just redid our website. So that's, that's being expanded and awesome. New stuff there. Well, I will include that in the show notes.

So it will be there as an easy click for everyone. Um, Sabrina, this has been incredible. Thank you. This has just been such an, an uplifting and real and inspiring conversation. Um, thank you for your time. I'm hoping so much for having this. I'm hoping that we can close with the question that I ask every single person who visits the cozy caregiver cafe.

Is that okay? Yeah, totally. Okay, wonderful. So you have shared that you and your wife have gone through these many health trials and I'm I'm just hoping that you can share some of that wisdom with the rest of us. And so, imagine that you're going through a dark time, a very dark time, and there is one person that you really need to talk to.

And that person agrees to meet you at the Cozy Caregiver Cafe. So you walk up the steps to the cafe, you push open the door and you see that person sitting at your table, waving you over. So you walk over and you pull out the chair and you sit down. What does that person say to you?

How can I best support you in this moment? Do you need me to listen? Or do you need help with brainstorming ideas and solutions? How Oh, that just brings tears to my eyes, not only the question, but the recognition that there are sort of two speeds that we as humans can be in the like, I will fix this for you, or I will sit with you through this hard and difficult time.

So, yes. Absolutely. Yes to that. It has been such a joy. Thank you for being here. Um, and the cozy caregiver cafe is so fortunate and so much better off to have the Sabrina and the Kyla energy and experience. Thank you all so much. Thank you.